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崔岫闻:我们走在路上,却离道很远!

来源:99艺术网 作者:文字:立东 采访:李裕君 2012-09-07

艺术家崔岫闻

崔岫闻:我们走在路上,却离道很远!
Cui Xiuwen: we are walking on the road, yet far away from routes

崔岫闻是一位在精神层次不断追求不断进取的艺术家。关注对问题的建构性思考是她一贯的出发点,她一直试图在更深的层次进入精神的空间,并用艺术的方式去发现和探知人类目前思考领域还没有触及的空间和可能。

9月15日,她最新创作的作品将会在上海美术馆“景像2012——中国新艺术”上呈现。对于中国未来新艺术,崔岫闻讲:“不要想中国这两个字,当代艺术未来的可能性不能拘泥于中国这样一个文化和地域视角,其实艺术是一个没有国界的人类精神的产物,我们思考的应该是人类未来的方向以及用艺术的方式探索其可能”。

对自己的创作思路,崔岫闻非常明确,早期她从关注男与女的性别关系进入创作,之后又从关注生理——心理——精神这样的脉络进行开来。《洗手间》作品对崔岫闻来说是一个新的转折点,在2002年首届广州三年展上,这件作品引发了中国当代艺术史上第一场公共化的法律诉讼事件。从此开始,她把目光从男女两性关系移开,开始关注女性的心理世界和精神化生存,并创作出了一系列深度探讨心理和精神的作品,比如《三界》、《天使》、《真空妙有》等。在艺术创作和个人成长中,崔岫闻用作品和生命探讨着女性的独立和自由。

“我们走在路上,却离道很远!”这是艺术家崔岫闻最近在个人微博中写到的一句话。她认为我们的视野应该更远一点,我们的思考空间应该更广一点,怎么样让我们的思考触及到现在国际上最领先的艺术领域的思考范围,把这个思考空间突破一下,这是艺术家要做的事,不仅仅是中国艺术家,这是全人类的艺术家都要做的事。

【艺术家简历】

崔岫闻生于中国哈尔滨,1990年毕业于东北师大美术系,1996年中央美院研修班毕业。早期曾经从事油画创作,其后主要从事影像和图片创作。

1996年开始油画作品创作,《玫瑰与水薄荷》系列是独立创作的开题之作,连同1998年的《舛》系列,因置换视角解读性别关系,一经展出便引起社会反响,专业和公共媒体广泛评论公开讨论,使作品成为当时的话题焦点。

2000年开始影像作品创作,第一部录像作品代表作《洗手间》,因观念视角及题材触角的尖锐度引发社会争议并成为产生广泛影响的公共事件:2002年首届广州三年展期间,《洗手间》引发了中国当代艺术史上的第一场公共化的法律诉讼事件,其法律胜诉标志着中国艺术家行使艺术话语权利在中国社会获得公共认同和法律支持。该作品被法国蓬皮杜艺术中心收藏,2003年、2005年两度在法国蓬皮杜艺术中心展出。2004年,受邀成为进入英国泰特美术馆展出的第一位华人艺术家。之后这部作品被邀请在比利时国际影像双年展、英国维多利亚美术馆及多个重要国际美术馆展出。2010年今日美术馆再次推出影像作品《神域》。曾荣获全球华人女性艺术家大奖——吴作人国际美术基金会“2008萧淑芳艺术基金优秀女艺术家奖”。2011年中国批评家年会“青年艺术家奖”,2011年雅昌艺术网年度摄影艺术家奖。

之后陆续创作的影像作品有:2001年《TOOT》,2002年《地铁》,《公共空间》,2003年《三界》,2005年《飘灯》,《他们》,2010《神域》,2011《自性》。

1999年开始图片作品创作,代表作为《三界》、《2004年的某一天》、《天使》、《真空妙有》。作品以精细的心理刻画和深度的精神解析屡获关注和热评。重要个展包括:《神域》,北京今日美术馆(2010);《自性》,四川美院坦克库艺术中心,《真空妙有》,台湾大未来耿画廊(2010);《一刻钟》,佛罗伦萨博物馆(2007);《天使》,意大利米兰马蕊乐画廊(2007);《崔岫闻个展》, 美国洛杉矶DF2画廊开幕展(2006) ;《崔岫闻个展》,意大利马蕊乐画廊北京展(2004,2006)。

相关链接

【视频】崔岫闻:我们都走在路上 我们离道很远(一)

【视频】崔岫闻:我们都走在路上 我们离道很远(二)

【视频】崔岫闻:我们都走在路上 我们离道很远(三)

崔岫闻在工作室接受99艺术网的采访

99艺术网:崔老师,感谢您接受我们99艺术网的采访,您最早是从事油画方面的创作,那个时候您创作的主题和思考是怎样的?

崔岫闻:早期创作我对问题的思考更多是来自于直觉和生理上的反应。后来我总结自己的艺术创作,大概分这样三个阶段:早期油画基本上是直觉和生理层面的思考,中间图片创作阶段以及几个录像作品是心理层面的思考,到《真空妙有》系列、《神域》、《自性》这一部分作品,基本上进到了精神空间来思考问题。

99艺术网:在此期间您经历了怎样的一个探索过程?遇到过哪些方面的问题呢?

崔岫闻:艺术创作对于我来说,就象是通向生命觉悟方向的一个媒介。在媒介里边有不同形式来表达自己,比如绘画、照片或录像,方式有差异,选择哪种方式表达自己与自己的内在需要及作品呈现的艺术属性要契合。

99艺术网:能分享一些您早期的创作经历吗?

崔岫闻:其实每一个阶段对于我来说都是一个对过去的总结,加上自己的思考并且用艺术的方式呈现。然而在呈现完了之后自己会进入到一个空白区,还需要再去思考,再去积累,再去呈现。这个空白区实际上就是艺术家不同阶段成长的中间段,这个阶段对于我来说是非常艰难的,因为每到这个阶段的时候,自己突然发现自己一片空白并无力,同时也会怀疑自己是否还有创造力。早期,我经过了四、五年这样的时间,这种怀疑带来的焦虑和不安,真的会让你对未来失去判断和信心,但是在这之中经过两个系列的创作之后,慢慢又发现自己还有新的创作的欲望和新的要表达的东西,突然间自己就会觉得特别喜悦,就像你面前突然间开了一个天窗。

这种喜悦会让你充满自信,因为你告诉自己是可以的、没问题的,你还可以再创作、再表达,这样的过程持续三、四次,基本上就会对自己有所了解。我是这样的频率,可能两三年一个系列,近几年某个系列之后所形成的空白期自己就不担心和焦虑了,因为自己知道没问题,过两年还会有新的东西出来,这是一方面;另一方面自己越来越成熟,对自己以往东西的挖掘、总结之后,可以沉淀出东西,这种东西特别的微弱、模糊,也不一定是形成作品或者一个完整的想法,它只是一点点能让你感受到很微妙的感觉,这个感觉可能存储下来,它很重要,只要有。。。尽管只那么一点点就不必担心了。

99艺术网:您所指的那种思考和感觉应该怎么理解?是不是属于一种特别的通灵的感觉?

99 Art Web: What do you mean by meditation and telepathize? Is that special feelings so called telepathy?

崔岫闻:不是,艺术家的直觉都很好,有一部分所谓通灵的东西,但是我不确认是不是,一个是对信息的感知和能量的获取,另外一个是来自于多年的积累和深度思考习惯。就像挖井一样,比如说你以前的思考能力对你来说只能挖五米,但你经过长期培养这样的思考的习惯,加上自己的阅历、阅读以及你的知识背景,还有你对所有事情的觉悟,之后你可能一年一年地越挖越深,我原来可以挖五米,现在可以挖七米,可能过一段我又能挖九米,再过一段可以挖11米。现在对于我来说,给自己一个思考点,就可能先会对它做一个梳理和思考,我的习惯是思考一段时间基本上把能成型的视觉形象用文案的方式完成,可能我不急于去做它,就放在那儿。因为我会有一个直觉告诉自己这个思考还不够深入,还不是那么完整,可能我会隔半年甚至一年再思考一次,时间间距不一样,就根据我的时间和我的感觉,我会二度思考、三度思考甚至四度思考,一步步地推进,直到把这个东西形成一个很完整的清晰的视觉形象留在文案里。之后剩下的就是实施,因为一个雏形的文案,要通过时间和经历不断地验证,把那些东西重新思考之后加上自己对艺术视觉表达的风格和对艺术理解的观念,以及你对生命的觉悟等等,很多东西赋予之后,这个就是属于你的。

Cui Xiuwen:No, artists always owns an incisive instinct. I'm not quite sure about that, but when I mentioned telepathy, one thing is an ability to acquire information and receive energy, while another is sort of a habit of deep though that formed along side my life span. Deep thought could be measured as well as drilling wells. In early time, your digging depth could only be 5 meters for instance, yet since you have had the habit of deep thinking, combined it with your experience, continuous reading and your increasing knowledge background, and even more important, your enlightment way of life. Then they could help you with further deepening your thought by years. Like me, I've reach 7 meters, and maybe reach 9 meters after several months, or even 11 meters in some years. Now came to myself, when a point of thought appears, I will observe it in a macroscopic view and structuralize it to the first place. Then put it into word. I will suspend it but not complete the plan in a haste. Because at this time, my instinct always warns me, that plan has not be so profound, nor integrated as I thought. Probably, I will take a review on it after one or half a year. The span of the time wouldn't be all the same, totally depend on my instinct. I will try to think it over twice, triples, or even more times, any tiny steps would be improved until I figure out the entire completed image which stemmed from my plan. Then what I have to do, is purely implement. An embryonic plan indeed requires polishes and tests by time and over thinking. That combined with individual visual expressing, and conceptions of art, also your enlightment of life, all these made it belong to yourself.

99艺术网:您第一部录像作品《洗手间》,因观念视角及题材触角的尖锐度引发社会争议,而且引发了中国当代艺术史上一场公共化的法律诉讼事件,您当时是怎样思考的?

崔岫闻:当时,我有一个比较主观的视角,那是一个女性的问题,同时又是一个比较社会性的问题,同时又是一个心理层面的问题,还有可能涉及到其他一些问题,包括道德问题。我在想作为一个艺术创作者我怎么呈现它?这个作品我从思考到呈现用了两年多的时间,中间和一些朋友交流过,首先大家都会觉得很危险,因为实施起来就很危险,另外就是实施的可能性和展出的可能性都有空间的局限,是头脑里的局限,这个时候怎么办? 对我来说,作为一个艺术家,首先要把它拍出来,拍的时候我给自己设定的是零度视角,就是自己不带任何情感色彩、道德色彩、批判色彩,尽量保持一个零度的角度,来真实地呈现这个东西。这个东西面向社会展出以后,不是我艺术家能控制得了,我再有想象力也不会考虑到,因为社会的广度、宽度和深度以及接受度不是一个艺术家可以想透的,我们的专业是创作,当时我想的是只管做出来。每一个作品都有自己的命运,就像每个人会有自己的命运一样,它将来是什么命运,我们就走着看了。

99艺术网:隔了很长时间之后,现在您又如何看待这个作品和事件的关系?

崔岫闻:其实我觉得这种问题挺有意思的,你们来之前,我就说有一些问题问的挺好玩的,也挺好的。我当时创作出这个作品的心态和在艺术上的思考,隔十年以后再回头去看,真的有很多不一样的地方,很多新的想法。当时我在做这个作品的时候,试图站在一个零的角度来呈现方方面面,之后尽量地以还原自然的形态去呈现我要拍摄的这些女人们。十年以后再去看,即便当时我已经很强地意识到这个东西不能带着自己的道德色彩、道德评判、感情色彩,以及其它心理因素,自己本身女性角色的定位都尽量避免,但实际上还是无意识的呈现了。现在再看自己就能更加客观和理性看待这个东西,其实里边有很多可取的地方,比如我对这些社会问题捕捉的敏感是值得肯定的,我艺术表达手法也是值得肯定的,我对这些女人工作态度的呈现也是可以肯定的。怎么讲?现在十年以后对于这个作品没有什么可否定的东西,但是有一点,那个时候的情境,那个时候的环境,那个时候的那些年轻女人的生存际遇和她们与社会需要的互动关系,现在没有了,不是说彻底没有了,是不一样了。现在的年轻女人,有些人也在做这样的事,但是她们做这个事儿时的心态,和现在的社会环境,毕竟和十年前不一样了,所以我觉得这是这个作品的历史性留下来的无法替代、也无法超越的一个特殊背景条件。

99艺术网:每一位女性在现实社会状态下面临的生存、生活方面的问题,从人性和女性角度来讲,您现在对作品创作会有怎样的看法和思考?

99 Art Web:Each woman faced challenges of society, such as survival, daily life. From humanity and feminity angle, could you talk about your creating works?

崔岫闻:首先,我不会做类似《洗手间》这样的作品了,因为我的年龄也长大十几岁,现在我对问题的理解和关注也都跟以前不一样了,我现在所关注的问题也不是女人最基本的生存境遇问题。通过这么多年的艺术创作以及个人的成长,我觉得最要紧解决的问题是女性的自由、独立和精神方面的问题,这是一个本源性的问题。没有这些东西,其他的都是表面,如果这些东西建构完整了,其他要解决的东西可能就迎刃而解了,否则我们每天只是在解决那些表面的问题,就像得了肿瘤或癌症,那个瘤在深度隐藏状态,可是我们表面是溃疡的,你每天老是修理溃疡面是无济于事的,要把根源的毒瘤挖掉才可以。

现在,我更关注的是一些建构性思考方向的问题,我刚才给你说我从生理性到心理性再到精神性的三个创作阶段。到目前为止,在精神性上我还要再往前走一步,进到精神空间,怎样用艺术的方式去发现、去探知人类目前的思考领域还没有触及的空间,这些可能性是我当下最重要的事。我是觉得中国当代艺术这么多年一直解决的都是怎么样在国际当代语境里边呈现自己的作品,我们国家的口号也是“冲出亚洲、走向世界”,其实西方当代艺术是有一个既定的思考格局,你冲进去了以后怎么办?作为当代国际领域的艺术创作阵营里的一员,只是说你走出了中国,可是国际当代艺术领域格局也不是既定的,它也要再发展、再前进,也要有突破,我觉得我们的视野应该更远一点,我们的思考空间也应该更广一点,怎么样让我们的思考触及到现在国际上最领先的艺术领域的思考范围,并把这个思考空间再突破一下,这个是艺术家要做的事,不仅仅是中国艺术家,这是全人类的艺术家都要做的事。我们老是说中国怎么样,现在的全球化的语境不要老提中国怎么样,作为人类的一分子,你这个人能为人类做什么贡献,首先要思考的是这样的问题,把自己身上背负的太多框架放下。

Cui Xiuwen:Firstly, I won't create works like my previous works, such as Lady's. Not only for my maturing age, but for my changing focus on issues. I have moved my focus away from female issues, especially their survival status. Throughout my career of art and my life, the most important and valuable female issue to me up to now, is constructed by three aspects, freedom, independence, and spiritual concerns. That's the principle one. Without the three, any other rights or welfare are all superficial. Once the three were constructed completely, any others would be readily solved. It could be simply concerned as cancers in our body, and likewise cancers, the most effective way to heal is to resect, but never merely apply medical stuff on its surface.

By now, I concern much about constructive thought. For arriving here, I experienced from physical to psychological then into spiritual creation phases. I need to go further within spiritual space. In such space, how to explore it by perspectives of artist? How to perceive it of which no human kind had viewed? That is my concern before everything. With so many years, Chinese contemporary artists tried to demonstrate their works in an international context of contemporary arts. Our government also purposed the idea which was particularly reflected in their slogan, "Out of Asia, Into the world". Actually, the western society had had their own system of art, what could our artists cope with when we march into them? We all group members of the whole contemporary art of the world. At this point, go out of China or Asia is meaningless. But the structure of the international contemporary art will vary, develop and beyond, that requires us have a long-term concern. How we deepen our thought into reaching the most advanced field of all human beings? And if we could surmount the limitation? That is the thing our artists need to handle with, not only for Chinese, but for all of human kinds. Nowadays, people always mentioned China as a special case in internationalization context, that's kind of unilateral. As a member of human beings, we need to think about what contributions we can devote to our kind. That's the question above all. To answer it, you need to set down the ideological bound first.

99艺术网:刚才听您提到了独立性、精神性和自由性。这种独立、自由和精神性是曾经没有过吗?还是现在所提倡的是一种新的独立、新的自由和新的精神?

99 Art Web:You mentioned freedom, independence and spiritual concerns. Did we ever own these features? Or are you advocating a new form of freedom, independence and spiritual concerns?

崔岫闻:我认为在历史的进程里,我们现在所碰到的这些问题基本上都曾经存在或者是发生过,只是说在某些特定的时期,当然这一百年的历史,我们知道是怎么样的。我们可能丢掉了很多东西,属于自然存在的东西丢掉了很多,属于文化存在的东西丢掉了很多,属于历史存在的东西丢掉了很多,属于人性存在的东西更丢掉了很多,怎样把这些找回来,找回来实际上对于建构这个社会,这个国家,乃至于建构整个人类是非常有必要和有好处的。因为我们的历史就是这样,所以我们现在老是在喊口号,口号实际上不那么重要,重要的是得去做,每个人都去做,我们的历史遗留下来的一些问题就是附带在这个社会里面,不仅仅是女人,男人也一样。怎么能作为一个真正的独立的人存在这个世界上?独立的人首先要有一个完整的精神结构,精神结构里边包含了很多内容,比如你的文化、修养,你对的历史背景的思考以及你对社会的理解,我刚才说的知识的含量和专业技能等等是一个综合性的东西,把这些东西全部交织在一起,作为一个自然人存在。我觉得每个人都应该有责任感,你有一个自己的尺度、标准、价值观,然后你会对这个世界发出自己的声音,这才是一个真正的独立的人,每个人都应该这样,如果每个人都这样,这个社会肯定比现在好很多。

Cui Xiuwen:In my opinion, during our historical process, all those issues that we might face today also challenged our ancestries ever before, just defined differently by their times. Well, in most recent 100 years, we all know what happened exactly. We might bear a huge loss, in natural, in cultural, in historical, or even more in humanistic. How could we get a recovery? The recovery actually would be much helpful to reconstruct our society, our country, even our kinds. Well, history is indeed, that unchangeable fact impacted us and could never be removed. Like advocating slogans, that means nothing to substantial matter, but lots of people engaged in it. We could ascribe everything to historical problems in our society. Not females alone, males are too suffer. How we stand on the earth as an entirely independent person? A completely constructive spirit is the basic thing. Construct of spirit includes many aspects, such as culture, manner, thought on historical background or understanding to societies, and knowledge and professional skills what I mentioned before, that's quite a synthesis of all things together. As being exist as a natural person, we need to be responsible to ourselves and the world. You have your measurements, standards, and values, after then you will make sound in your own voice. That's an independent person what I mean. Everyone should do like that. If they did, we would get a much better society in the future.

99艺术网:您的作品从《真空妙有》到《天使》系列一直保持了一种对精神领域的追问,艺术界对你的评价也一直冠以先锋等头衔。您在创作过程中,是如何坚持自身对作品的先锋性探索的?

99 Art Web:From Angel in 2006 to Existential Emptiness in 2009, what appears by your works was a consecutive explore in spiritual space. While in the circle of Chinese contemporary art, you were well-known by avant-garde. How could you abide by this avant-guard explore?

崔岫闻:其实我觉得前卫、先锋,这些词汇赋予在当代艺术领域还是对的,但是有多少人真正的配得上这个称号,这是需要考量的。我个人认为真正的前卫、先锋,或者类似于这样的称号,实际上就是人的思想空间能够走多远,人的精神空间也就能够走多远,同样,人的意识空间也是如此。你走在当下,可能就是当代的;你超过当代一步,你可能就是先锋一点点,你超过当代十步,我们可以用年份来算这个,一年、十年,你可能就是领先于这个时代十年,领先的年数是不能用数字来衡量的,你说老子的思想到现在谁能超越?他领先时代多少年,你没法计算,杜尚的作品领先时代多少年,你没法计算,到目前所有的全球当代艺术家谁能超越?其实我们要做的事情真的是不能说你一定要每个人都能达到杜尚、老子的境界,但是那是每一个想做先锋,想做当代艺术家的一个方向和一个要企及的空间。

Cui Xiuwen:It's fairly well to apply the word avant-garde in contemporary art field. But we should wonder how many artists deserve this title. Personal speaking, those titles or something like them, is actually a measurement of how far away human thought would reach, so does our spiritual space and conscious space. You live at present, you are contemporary. If you leap over present, you are a bit avant-guard. If you far beyond present, you could be the leading role of our epoch. That couldn't be measured by merely years. You may consider of Lao Zi, nothing could surpass his mind. How many years his thought had beyond our time? No one answers, and no way to count. So did Marcel Duchamp. I subject to admit that there's meaningless to compare with those two. But that submit they have achieved is exactly every artist who are so-called avant-guard should move toward.

99艺术网:从当代艺术的发展现状来看,在学术方面对当代艺术的未来构建更多的是以批评为主的,但对于当代艺术未来的可能性或发展方向来说,您的作品中可能会在这方面体现的比较多,您是如何保持这样的一个态度?

99 Art Web:By looking at the situation of contemporary arts development, holding with hypercritical attitude by critics is a mainstream around scholarship. But your works insistently explore for more probability or progress orientation of contemporary art, why?

崔岫闻:这是我一贯对自己的要求,也是我创作的一个基本底线。我觉得人活着挺不容易的,但是艺术又让人活得挺有尊严的,可这个“尊严”能保持多久?当然有你的天分,也有你后天的努力,我对自己是有一个底线的要求,就是我真的希望我每一个系列都会对上一个系列有超越,否则我不知道我还有没有活着的理由,这个话说的比较大一点,但是对于我个人来说这真的是我内心的感受。作为一个艺术家存在在这个世界上,自己能给人类留下什么,当然不可能要求所有的人都是每个系列要超越上一个系列,但是我觉得至少要有这种精神,否则就是一个支点永远是张开和在同一层面去发展的。

Cui Xiuwen:That hailed from my routine requirement to myself. And that's also my principle of creation. Though survival to people is not an easy thing, art would bring us dignity. Such dignity would last for how long? In generally based on your inborn gift, sure with much effort too. I have some basic requirements to myself, that is I should make all effort to surpass myself in my every next series of work. Otherwise I would rather die without beyond. It's a bit serious, but my true feelings. As an artist who live in this world, I always wonder what I could leave for all our kinds. It's impossible to require to everyone, at least I should own. If not, every of my points would stay on a same but plain surface.

99艺术网:您的很多图像作品,一直都在体现一种观念性和对时间和空间转换的一些理解,如何理解您在作品中对空间和时间转换的思考和观念性体现?是一种特别的精神状态还是单纯的表象?

99 Art Web:In much of your photography works, they demonstrated an conceptional understanding to swith or twist time and space. How to understand this transition? Is that a kind of special spiritual status or purely representation?

崔岫闻:这也是刚刚你问我的,从最早的几种表现形式,包括油画,这么多年没有触及了,但是我也没有说一定要彻底放弃,这个东西都是很自然的一个过程,实际上我在油画转向影像作品和图片作品的时候,对时间和空间的表达上,我有了新的可能性。对我来说,我觉得用油画表达不如用录像和照片来表达时间和空间的可能性更自如一点。很简单,我来举一个例子,小的时候我特别喜欢追着夕阳跑,也经常在松花江边上写生,每次看到红彤彤的落日吊在空中,投在江水上,下面映着一个特别大的红彤彤落日的倒影,我就会异常的激动和兴奋。而当那个红彤彤落日开始渐渐落下的时候,我的心就变的特别紧张,我会马上搭乘公交车回家,这段路程差不多需要40分钟。心情不知道有多急迫,自己就怕落日落没了,到家以后,我立刻霹雳啪啦的就爬上楼,坐在阳台上托着下巴儿看落日被黑暗一点点地吞噬,最后完全变成黑暗,不知道怎么描述那种心情。这是一直在思考当中的事,并且一直在希望能用艺术的方式把那种思考和感受表达出来。当时落日的感受,我现在的思考是太阳是不断地落,人也在不断地奔跑,我在公交车上,40分钟已经走很远了,但是太阳依旧在松花江上往下落,这时自己跟太阳好像已经没有关系,早已存在于两个时空 了,时间也不在同一个空间里。假如说我们换一个视角来看奔跑的小孩以及下落的落日,用一个环形和立体360度空间方式来思考,实际上她跟它一直处在一条线上,也同时处在一个点上,女孩一直不断地跑,落日不断地落。这就形成了他们两个之间动态的和不确定的关系,这里边包含了时间和空间所有的概念,这是我现在对时间和空间的理解。

Cui Xiuwen:That just the answer to your former question. I did have a long time without grasping painting brushes, but I didn't really abandon that form. It seems like a natural process to me to change my ways to express. Actually, when I turned to photography and camera creations, I developed some new probabilities on illustrating time and space. Especially for me, photography or camera is a much more effective way. See an example, I was always chasing sunsets toward the west when I was a young girl. And sometimes I stood and depicted the landscape beside the bank of Songhua River in my hometown. Every time when I saw the waning sun hung over the edge of the sky, and shadow of it in the river, I was exiting and hectic. Once the sun setted down and disappeared, I was getting nervous and immediately took a bus home. It took me 40 minutes from the bank to my home, I was so anxious of the disappearing of the sun, that I went upstair to my room in hasty. From the windowsill, I just saw the rest halo of the sun was fading, and soon dark completely mantled. I couldn't describe my mood that time with much details, but that feel was always haunting on my mind. Someday I will visualize that in my way of art. The feeling at that time, now when I recall, just like a picture, within it the sun is descending while the person is running toward. When I stayed on the bus, 40 minutes would take me for a long way, but the sun just move a limit angle, it seems like those two objects has no connection, they are totally in different time and space. But if we observe it from another perspective, put the running girl and descending sun into a 3D space within a circle, actually the girl stood at a same line with the sun, even at a same point. The girl was ceaselessly running, and the sun is ceaselessly descending, never stopped, and that is their inner connection which was in an uncertain form. This includes my concept and understanding to the time and the space.

99艺术网:您用一个小故事形象的去讲述更容易让我们理解。您的影像和图片作品普遍具有独特的精神气质和视觉表现,在您影像作品的创作过程中,您通常会和片中的演员有怎样的交流?

崔岫闻:可能我更像一个导演的工作,基本上当我确定一个演员,至少要提前三个月,我要给她上课,每个星期至少要两个小时的课或者是两次四个小时的课,就会把我的想法,我的感受和我要做的内容跟他沟通,之后通过他自己的理解和他的呈现,之后我再去调整,一般我不是说灌输他要怎么做,我只是给他一个点,就像我看到太阳落日一样,我给他这样一个点,让他自己去思考,思考出来以后,他再呈现,他呈现完了以后我再看,我看再有哪些地方需要再沟通,之后我再跟他讲,就是这样一遍一遍,直到我觉得他完全可以用他的比较独立的思考能力,把这个事物呈现出来,这是我的一个风格、习惯,我觉得是我的思考也是他的理解以后的一个独立的思考,把这两个思考融合为一起的时候是我要呈现的东西,而不只是强加他,也不是说他只是自己独立地就去发挥他对这个事情的理解。

99艺术网:演员在选择的时候会有哪些方面的考虑?如何去平衡作品的完整性与您采用的交流方式和效率之间的关系?

崔岫闻:有一定的难度,选演员是最难的,比如说我的作品,我都希望演员是特别单纯的,具有精神性的感受力的,要有气质感,之后你就得用这几个标准去找,很难。这个完全是个人化的,就是个人的感觉,我找的很艰难,我可以通过各种渠道,影视公司找,但是经常找不到自己要满意的,可能无意间在哪个空间玩儿或者是跟朋友聚会,哪个朋友带个孩子,发现这个就可以。有一个故事,《真空妙有》的女主角和我是朋友,我跟她交流了两年,不是在交流让她来演我这个角色,是经常会碰面,谈事,之后也跟她说了好几次,要她帮我留意一下有没有合适的小女孩,可以在我这个作品里边来扮演这个角色,两年之后,我们见面,我又跟她说这个问题,突然间我发现我要找的模特不就是她吗?为什么两年都没有看到她是可以的。她也很兴奋,她说真的吗?可以吗?我们试一下吧!我觉得其实关键不是说这些东西不存在,而是艺术家有没有发现的能力,这个很重要。

99艺术网:您通常会选用女性题材来探讨人性的观念特征,在人物心理解析和精神挖掘上,您对人性的深层矛盾结构有哪些方面的理解和解读?

崔岫闻:为什么我喜欢单纯一点的,年幼一点的模特。可以怎么讲,你把很多很成熟的东西跟她交流以后,她可以用一个比较单纯的载体,就是她本身去演绎一个很成熟的结构,也就是你的思想精神和意识结构。她中间会有两极的空间,也包含时间,用她的年龄的意识走过这么长的一段时间和空间,其实这个不知道有多长,可能一眨眼一秒钟就穿越过去了,有可能你一辈子都走不到这个空间,就是不能把极单纯、极复杂的两个东西融合在一起,实际上最后我要的是要能完成这种融合,把极单纯、极复杂的融合,同时又用她那么嫩的小脸和身体呈现出来,这个就很有意思了。

99艺术网:您觉得自己的性格特点会对自己的作品有怎样的影响?

99 Art Web:How your personality affects your works?

崔岫闻:我觉得这个很难说清楚,因为我觉得每个人对自己是最不了解的,我的生命的历程就是一个了解自己的历程。做作品就是从内往外拿东西,你的精神结构完整以后,你对世界的感受,你对生命的体悟,就一点点的从里往外拿,这里面肯定是附带了你个人的性格和你个人比较特殊性的东西。但是你往往很难发现自己哪些地方是特殊性的,你可能只能说自己是这样的人,或者是那样的人,实际上我发现都不对,你说你是这样的人的时候,马上你的脑子里边会有另外一个你出现了,之后你再说你是那样的人,马上另外又一个你又出现了,其实最后你自己都不知道自己是哪一个确定的人,其实人是蛮复杂的一个形态,就像我刚才说的。实际上人在宇宙当中是一个不确定性的存在方式,确定的是说你是一个生命,这个大家都是一样的,但是不确定性的是你的生命的长短,每个人都不一样,这里面更多的不确定性的东西就是每个人的性格也是不一样的。你自己的性格里边也随时随地都在变化,不确定的形态里边你没法说你就是一个什么样的人,你作为人的一个结构里边,某一个指标是恒定的,比如说你是一个温和的人,可能你永远温和,这是你的特质,但不是你的全部。你一生可能从来不发脾气,别人一生可能暴跳如雷,这是你的差异,但是它不是你的全部,到目前为止,我觉得没有一个人知道自己的全部是什么样的,而且你的全部绝对不可能用一句话就概括了。

Cui Xiuwen:It's kind of a difficulty to make clear. Because I'm afraid the person we know least is just ourselves. My life is also an adventure to find and know more about myself. Create works, just like withdraw ideas and spirits from your bodies. That based on your integrated spiritual construct. Such as your feelings reflected toward the world, your perceiving of life. Those things are individual, but sometimes it's hard for us to find the individualities. You may say you are such a person of this or that. But that's not true. When you define yourself as a kind of person, its opposite will appear in your mind with no intervals. Then you change your definition, but all of them have their opposites. Eventually, you would never have a certain answer of who are you. Human being is indeed a sophisticated creature. As I said just now, we existed in the universe in forms of uncertainty. The only thing can be sure is, you suffer a life, and that's same to all kinds. But the length of each is different. And personalities are various in each person in each time. No one could sure of what human kind you are look like. As a part of humanistic construct, maybe that could be sure to some extend, such if you are a temperate person, and maybe you could be temperate forever, that's your disposition, but not all of yourself. Up to now, I think no one dare to claim he or she know who he or she is, and all features of a person could never be concluded in one word or one sentence.

99艺术网:是不是可以这样理解,您其实在思考创作或者探索作品的一个创作性上也是您在自我发现的一个过程?

99 Art Web:Could we make such understanding: the process you were conceiving or exploring was also a process you tried to find yourself?

崔岫闻:当然有。自我发现是一小部分,更多是因为我们要用双眼向外看,要用所有的身体器官甚至毛孔去感受世界。科学家告诉我们,人类所能看到的现有的显性物质形态只占整个宇宙形态里边的4%,实际上整个宇宙里边有96%是以暗物质的形态存在,我们人类根本看不见,我们看见以为是我们看见的这个世界的全部,那是不对的,哪怕艺术创作和科技,如果你发现了4%以外的零点多少,你就是这个宇宙最牛的人。

Cui Xiuwen:Of course it is. But self-discovery only took a part. The much more important thing is we need to view this world by our eyes, and to perceive it by all our organs even pores. The scientists said to us, apparent materials that we can observe only make up to 4% of the whole universe. Actually the rest of 96% was made up by dark matters that even unseeable to us. It's wrong if we think we can see all the things of this world. Typically to art and science field, if you could discover even if a tiny thing out of the 4% material ,you would be the most prominent person in this world.

99艺术网:所以外界的范围更广更大,需要我们探索的知识面、问题存在的更多。您经常性会参与一些文化、学术、跨界、时尚,还有慈善的一些活动,在这些活动中间,您怎样去和您的作品进行一个互动?您认为这些会给您的艺术探索产生哪些方面的影响?

崔岫闻:我的文化、学术、时尚、慈善等跨界活动首先源自我作为艺术家的创作思考和表达,跨界交流体现了社会对艺术维度价值的认知和需求。不言而喻,我要做的事情就是继续把艺术做好。

99艺术网:这些是不是你给予艺术创作的动力?

崔岫闻:不见得是动力,而是让你了解世界更加丰富的一个可能性,因为如果你只在艺术空间不知道时尚的空间是什么样的,不知道文化活动的形态是什么样的,也不知道学术领域里边怎么去完成一些学术的交流,只有你有好的作品的时候,你才可以进入到更多的领域,更多的空间去感受这个世界和发现这个世界的一些你未知的空间和领域。

99艺术网:是否可以说像这些活动,这些信息,包括在这一方面的一些空间中间,你所得到的东西也是在你作品创作中的一些涵养?

崔岫闻:怎么讲,用一个觉悟的方式和方向来感受世界,觉悟点无处不在,不仅仅是这些领域,随时随刻。所以为什么拒绝呢?

99艺术网:您的图片作品通常会包括许多传统的元素,比如说中国的戏曲、古典乐器、山水画之类的,这些元素您在运用当中和您创作主线思考会有一个怎样的必然的联系?

99 Art Web:In much of you photography, you add typical Chinese element in them, such as Chinese theatre, ancient instrument, or traditional landscape paintings. How these elements combinate with your creations?

崔岫闻:这是一个好问题,我觉得我们这个年代出生的艺术家,说好听的是承上启下,说不好听就是两头够不着,其实我们的传统文化的底蕴是缺失的,我们对未来的和对当下以及未来的可能性的探索又是我们必须的工作。在这个问题上,我认为传统是根,也是底蕴,你根能扎多深,就跟井喷似的,就能喷多高,如果你钻不下去,我说钻下去,其实包括所有传统文化和我们身边触及的这些当下的文化,还有历史里面所有我们可吸取的养分,如果你钻不透,钻不深,你肯定喷不高,这是一个很简单的道理,所以你不去补课怎么行呢?

Cui Xiuwen:That's a good question. As my peer artists in our generation, they said we are a connection between the preceding and the following. But actually we are suspend in a cultural vacuum. We indeed lack of accumulations of our traditional culture. Since we set exploring the future as our commission and goals, we need to derive nutrition from our long standing cultures, centuries-old histories and even popular cultures at present.  

99艺术网:和影像作品相比较来说,除了这些表现方式上有一些不同观念的表达上也会有一些不同吗?图片作品中的传统元素和你的影像作品采用的另外一种,两者之间是有形式上的不同,但是表达观念上是不是也有一些不同的地方?

99 Art Web:Compared to video works, did your photography develop some different ways of expressing? In other word, is there any different in conceptional express between video works and photography in spite of forms?

崔岫闻:这也是一个好问题,所以我在看你们文案的时候,我觉得好多问题问得都很好,因为创作的时候,油画、图片和影像都是我的表达形式,但是它是三个不同的空间通道,是我差不多十几、二十年的创作历程,我自己一点一点觉悟、总结,发现这三个空间通道对于我来说是完全不一样的,他们是不交汇的,但是又有一个像根一样的东西,它是一个原动力,可能这个树根是我的原动力,我的思考的原动力,树根向下的时候是散开不同方向,扎到土地里,扎到我的思考空间,上来是形成一个干,这个干就是我存在的一个形式,你们看到的我,不是我的作品,之后所有的作品是树枝,所有的作品的形态比如这个枝是油画,这个枝是影像,这个枝是照片,它是这样的一个关系。

Cui Xiuwen:That's another good point. You really have a way to ask questions. During my creation, oil painting, photography and video are all my expressing ways, but in different channels. I find them in totally different after my perceiving and concluding 20-years experience on contemporary arts.They have no crosses, but all of three are my origin power engines. These three to me are like roots to plants, they spread out to different orientations, and deeply grip the silt, as if take root in my mind. What stemmed from them is the trunk to the tree, and this trunk can be seen as a form of my existence. Forms are roots, me is the trunk, and works are branches.

99艺术网:你通过这样一个树型结构图来说明问题,从最根部得到东西,在您自身的思考和觉悟中,最后通过不同的方式去表现。所以刚才说的观念上的东西,其实在观念上来说,不管是不是相同,都是属于您自身不同的观念形态表达。您从上世纪90年代中期到现在,作品曾多次参加过国内外各种实验艺术和对新艺术探索性的展览,比如:04、05、06年连续在美国和英国的“过去与未来之间-来自中国的新摄影、新图片及影片”展览、2010年“改造历史” 2000-2009年的中国新艺术等,您对这次“景像2012——中国新艺术”展有怎样的理解和解读?

崔岫闻:其实“景象”就跟我刚才说你看到的一个树干、一个树叶,枝繁叶茂,我们看到的东西都叫景,艺术家创作出来的东西叫像,我觉得对景像我是这样理解的。但是这个“像”从哪儿来?是从这个树根来的。用我自己的视角和表现风格发现一些别人没发现的一个领域的景像,把它呈现出来,并且能够触动人的思考,这里边可能附带了我对时间的思考,我对空间的思考,和我对人类未来性的思考,我希望能在我的作品里边呈现出来。

99艺术网:您此次参加“景像2012——中国新艺术”展的作品在方案的实施上有什么的新思考?与展览的主题有哪些方面的共性?

崔岫闻:我觉得我的作品包含了景象所阐释的内涵。我们的思考空间是同一个方向,很契合。因为新艺术和对于未来性的思考,以及事物的空间和时间,还有不确定性这些问题的思考都是当下比较超前的问题,怎么能在艺术作品里边呈现出来,还要到展厅去看。

99艺术网:在西方文化观念和话语权影响之下,很多人都在批判和探讨中国当代艺术的现状和未来,对于当代中国艺术未来的种种可能性您有怎样的思考和探索吗?在您的作品创作中有没有哪些新探索?

99 Art Web:Be affected with western perspectives, many people are criticizing the present and someone tried to figure out the future of China's contemporary art. Do you have any thought or exploration on that, for much possible probabilities? Could we find that from your works?

崔岫闻:其实就是我刚才说的,不要想中国这两个字,它不是一个中国当代艺术未来的可能性,其实艺术是一个没有国界的人类精神的产物,要思考的是人类未来的方向,用艺术方式探索其可能性,我觉得我们的着眼点应该在这儿。

Cui Xiuwen:Just as I said before. Do not confine to China, that's not merely a concern about China's futural probability. In fact, art is one thing has no regional limitations. What we should think about is the future of human beings, and explore the probabilities of our possible lives by ways of art. That should be the spirit.

99艺术网:我刚才表达的可能不是很准确,不是说中国当代艺术怎么样,而是当代的中国艺术。处于全球化的当代语境中,不是说某个国界架构中,但是我们落脚点在中国艺术问题上,就当代的中国艺术而言。

99 Art Web:Maybe my question was not precise. I didn't mean China's contemporary art, but the Chinese art at present time, while in internationalization. Not limit to one or two countries, but to Chinese art, here's the point.

崔岫闻:这里面有几个问题,我给你总结梳理一下,有三个问题:当代艺术未来的可能性;批评的力量在当下有什么作用;西方当代艺术现有的结构和他的话语权利对整个当代艺术的影响,尤其是对中国当代艺术的影响,分三个问题,一个一个地来谈。

Cui Xiuwen:Here's three points in your questions need to be clarify. One is the future probabilities in contemporary art. Two, how the critique power works at present. Third, what and how the existing western contemporary arts construct and its context affect China's.

第一个问题是中国自己本身当代艺术存在的问题实际上它不是艺术的问题,是人的问题,中国当下所有的问题都是人的问题,人的问题是脑子里的问题,对于一个艺术创作的表达,你首先要有一个思考,你的思考空间在哪里,你思考的问题是什么,你表达的又是什么,就是我刚才说的。可能很多人表达的就是自己看到的,实际上我们作为一个人存在这个世界上,我们本身就是一个载体,我们表达的是我们的思想和我们的精神气质,我们的思想和精神气质是哪里来的?应该追问这个东西,这个东西有多少,你就能表达多少,是这个东西构成了你艺术表达的最核心的和最根部的问题。实际上一个国家的建构也是这样,一个体制的建设也是这样,一个社会核心的形态依靠的是思想和精神结构的建构。如果没有这些,什么都会有问题,什么问题都会解决不好,这个到了什么程度,你的问题就解决到什么程度,这是艺术的问题。

To the first place, the problem to China's contemporary art is not really relate to art itself, but to the person who seized art. Not merely in art, even to all issues in China, are all essentially problems of person. When it come to creation work, you need a thought first, you need to clarify where's your thought space, what's the issue you are concern about, what you want to express. Most people will express merely what they saw. But in fact, as we are human beings existing in this world, we are already a carrier to express our thought and spiritual disposition. Where our thought and spiritual disposition come from? You should keep trace on this question. How much you own, how much you could express. That consist to the core and root of your expression. Same to a country, so did the institution, both are depend on thought and spiritual construct. Without this, everything will have problem, and no way to solve. That's the problem of art.

第二个问题是西方的当代艺术格局的问题。这个格局是由西方整个社会结构和艺术的历史搭建成现在西方当代艺术的格局和结构的,在这个结构和格局里我们是没有占位的,这不是因为我们的国力和经济弱,而是因为我们的头脑不行。我们思想的深度和高度,对于精神和文化的态度以及态度以外实施的能力和呈现能力不行,当然这里面也有一些政治的原因,政治是一个很历史性的问题,有待于一点点地解决,这需要给一个时间量。

Second is the problem of western art structure. That based on western society construct and their art history. We have no places in that structure. Not attribute to our weak economy or something, but for our mind, depth or elevation of our thought. Especially for our attitude toward spiritual matter or culture, and weak in implement and illustration. Surely it has political causes, but that kind of historical issues, could only be cured regularly.

第三个就是批评的问题。批评的问题实际上在一定的时间段内,它是有一个提示和警醒的作用,但是批评解决不了根部的问题,世界、地球、宇宙都是自然的形态,人有人性的劣根性,你的知识、文化、修养,人性所具有的所有的东西是这样组成的。当你这些东西不完整的时候,你只是去批,我举个例子,鲁迅同志已经批了快一百年了,可是有变化吗?怎么样让这个社会真的能够推进,把问题减少,实际上就是我刚才说的你要有建构性的思维和建构性的能力,建构是什么,这一层的问题困在这儿,你只能在上一层搭建一个新的结构,把这里边所有的问题含进去问题自动解决掉。我们现在社会做批评就是刀砍斧劈?先批,批了怎么办?不是批了问题就没有了,批到狠的时候就开始解构,先批就是先砍几刀,先砍几板斧,到解构的时候就把这个东西给弄碎了,弄瘫了,弄散了,解构完了怎么办?现在什么东西都到解构主义了,甚至什么后解构主义了,解构了瘫在那儿了怎么办?你不建构行吗?一定要有建构的能力,我觉得整个人类都需要有建构的能力,这就可以解决所有人类的问题,不仅仅是当下的问题,不仅仅是中国的问题。
 

Third is the problem of critique. During some periods, critiques would play a role as warning or notification but nothing contribute to solve root problems. The world, the earth planet and the universe are all have their natural features, same to human beings, featured by their inner bad quality. What caused unconstructive critique or hypercritical comments even acerbic blames is their incomplete spiritual structure. Comrade Lu Xun could be exemplified as a symbol of critique. But over 100 years passed under his supervising editorials, if there anything changed in our society? How to really impulse the society, reduce problems, actually is to acquire the ability of constructive thought. What is constructive thought? When you faced a problem at a certain layer of thought, you have to solve it by standing higher. That expanding horizon would mantle the secondary one, and any problems in that layer would be solved automatically. What our society now committing critics is too direct like cutting down trees. What should we do after fierce criticizing? Problem still exist. Much more seriously critic it deconstruction. Deconstruction may scatter things or paralyze them. What should we do after deconstructions? Almost everything in our life were suffering deconstructionism, even post-deconstructionism. After deconstructive process, what could we make any improvement without reconstruction? That's the most important ability for each of us. That could solve all problem we have met or will face in the future, not only for present, and not merely for China.

99艺术网:在媒体制造、科技创新和网络信息的影响下,您认为我们具有真实的文化、生活态度吗?
 

99 Art Web:Affecting by widespread medias, developing technologies and expanding internet informations, do you think we still have real culture and attitude toward our lives?

崔岫闻:现实生活和虚拟生活共同构成了我们的生活结构,其中必然伴随着更多的表象和虚假,心灵的力量在于要透过表象和虚假回归本质,只要有真实的心灵就必然有真实的文化、生活态度。媒体制造扩大了传播、更多体现了商业和市场的力量,科技创新和网络信息丰富了艺术家的工作手段,但艺术家也因此容易被市场和手段遮蔽住心灵,破除现实的迷雾,也是艺术家出来工作的必然使命。
 

Cui Xiuwen:Both our virtual life and cyber life constitute our life structure. So appearances and falsity follow. The power of our spirit just depends on the ability of viewing through the appearance to perceive the essence. Pure spirit would make true culture and attitude toward our lives. The medias enlarged range of communications, and reflected its economic power. Innovating technologies and expanding web infos enriched ways of artists to express themselves. But some artists would also bewildered by huge economic profit. To clear up mundane mist, is also a commission of artists.

99艺术网:您在自己的作品创作中间有没有考虑到有这方面的探知,或者是一种去批判观念性的东西?

99 Art Web:Do you have any concerns about that in your works, or is that something critical conceptional issues?

崔岫闻:我昨天在微博里说了一句话“我们都走在路上,却离道很远”,我觉得可以回答这个问题。

Cui Xiuwen:One of my Weibo which I posted yesterday could be suitable for your question. We are walking on road, yet far away from routes.

99艺术网:许多当代艺术家的成功虽然得益于商业,但是有些也因为商业而在艺术上停滞不前,您觉得艺术家在商业面前应该如何保持对艺术自律性?

99 Art Web:Many successful contemporary artists benefited from business, which may also cause stagnation to some of them. In your mind, what should artists do to insist to their disciplines of art?

崔岫闻:怎么讲?艺术创作是要在道上走,商业就是那个路,这是我刚才说的。当你去走那个路的时候你就会离道越来越远,当你走在道上的时候,可能你呈现的就是人类最本质的东西,因为它俩不在一个空间,这是它的本源状态。为什么现在可以互动? 商业是附在社会这个结构里边,就需要它们之间有互动,实际上不是艺术需要,也不是商业需要,而是社会结构需要,所以艺术家要清醒地认识自己的创作,自己是如何给人类呈现的自身追逐的真理方向。可能在真理之上高于真理,追求到一个真正觉悟的空间去,还是在真理之下完成自己的理想,达到自己的既定的目标,之后再之下可能就是满足自我的兴趣,再之下就是解决自我的生存问题,这是五个不同的空间,这五个空间在目前的艺术领域从业者里边,可能基本上都在理想这个空间追逐着,并且获得了一些肯定和收获,最终被冠以成功艺术家这个名分,实际上真正的艺术要在真理这个空间,甚至要从真理再往上,从而进入到一个觉悟的空间里去做事,呈现自己对这个世界的体悟和认知。
其实清楚一点的排序是这样的:生存、兴趣、理想、真理、觉悟这五个空间的思考,每给人都可以对位一下,自己所从事的职业所在的空间和生命所追求的方向,答案就自知了。

Cui XiuwenHow to say. Art creations must go along with a principle. Business is mere the road that we walked on. But that way may take you too far away from the route toward truth. Once on this route, you may see the most essential things of all human beings. They were not at a same level. Why they could have interactions? Because business belong to the structure of this society. Actually not art, nor business itself but the social structure requires interactions between business and art. Therefore, artists should soberly recognize their creations, how they present the orientation of truth pursuit. Whether they would go higher above truth, achieve a pace of enlightenment, or consummate their dreams, reach a goal they set, or even merely enjoy their interesting, just enough to survive. Those are five different spaces. Among all art engaging person, most of them are staying abiding by their dreams, and receive recognizing and returning. Some of them eventually were endowed by the title of successful artists. When I mentioned the true art, must stay at least in the truth space, even higher into a space of enlightenment, and demonstrate their recognizing and perceiving of this world.
To be clarified these five phases, they are: survive, interesting, dreams, truth and enlightenment. Everyone could place themselves in those five spaces. It would be obvious when combine them with your professions and pursuit.
(Translated by Jin Qi 靳琪)

99艺术网:理解了,非常感谢崔老师今天下午跟我们谈到这么多关于艺术、人性和社会方面的话题。谢谢!

 


【编辑:赵立东】

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