杨千
记：杨老师，您多年来对各种形式的艺术都有所涉及，艺术实验非常广泛，这次“2009超常新作展”主要展览作品有哪些?
杨：主要是我对当前的各种危机的思考和关注，包括装置、绘画作品等。
记：也就是说是一个综合的展览，展览的主题是什么呢?
杨：主题是“超常”，是由策划人黄笃提出的，用他的话讲“超常包含了两层内涵，一方面指具有超出寻常，或超出一般常态之意，一方面则是指日常经验之意。正是在这个视点上，艺术家借用建筑、文学、舞台、大众媒体、体育用品等的指向性来介入艺术的语言系统，以扩张装置艺术的内涵与外延。”这也是一个全球性的危机时期，所以这次展览的很多作品是我根据这次危机和人们对各种危机的关注进行的创作，比如媒体危机、价值危机、信仰危机、精神危机、金融危机、环保危机等等。
记：这些反映危机的作品就是本次展览的核心?
杨：对!比如《巴别塔》是关于媒体危机的，取自于《圣经》故事，讲的是诺亚方舟上留下的人类妄自尊大，竟然想修一座通天塔与上帝见面，于是上帝非常生气，混乱了他们的语言，造成思想无法统一和沟通，文化产生差异，分歧、猜忌等各种问题接踵而来。“巴别塔”这个词在希伯莱语中意为“混乱”。这是一个隐喻。我觉得疯狂的媒体就在建造这么一个巴别塔，极度的泛滥和无序化不断改变人的思维方式。它就像一个宫殿，把一切都标准化了，是出于商业目的，是谎言。
《传奇1001》#1、#2是关于价值危机的。我把“美元”和“人民币”都做成1001，用媒体和钱币的复印件纸屑作为媒介语言，表达了两层含义：一是价值的膨胀与贬值;一是天方夜谭式的价值，都是在说明价值的变化。这种价值判断的变化让人们感到恐惧。
《圣经》是用流行杂志的废纸片做成的作品，反映精神信仰被流行文化充斥替代;奥巴马与佛龛结合的作品折射美国把总统作为信仰的对象作为唯一的希望，其实他只是一个总统，他能做什么?会有什么奇迹发生?这件作品暗示了经济危机中信仰、信心的误乱，女人体卧像是以真人翻制、用树脂和纸屑做的，希望它能带给观众现在人的身体、灵魂都充满了这种垃圾的感觉。
《格林斯潘》是用纸屑做的，在展览时会在墙上把纸屑向四周延伸，直到慢慢散开消失，金融机构就像纸屑那样从四周集中到一个最有权利的人的手中，但是当他犯了一个错误时就会把全球带入到危机的深渊里。而另一件作品使用喷泉样的造型，喷出乒乓球，上面印着各种词语，是针对媒体的，我们现在完全是生活在媒体的环境里，它暗指了媒体的变异与污染。这几个作品构成了展览的核心，都是关于危机的。
记：其实这些作品就是一种对危机解构重现的一种方式。
杨：这些关于危机的作品是我的一个新的起点，因为我现在越来越感觉到媒体的软暴力以及其对于现代生活的控制，它把这个时代都变成了没有文化区域之分的时代。
记：是不是这意味着：媒体在这个时代已经没有过去那么具有单一性和独裁性了，而是在均衡地分割人们的视野、视线和思维。
杨：不是，我觉得媒体完全是评判事件的一种唯一的标准。它说什么好就是什么好，排行榜、广告都是一种商业炒作，不仅是中国，也不仅是艺术市场，整个系统都是如此。最近朝鲜发射了一个卫星，欧美说他发射不成功，但是朝鲜又弄了个录像带说发射成功了，我们不知道真相，这些信息完全是媒体给我们的信息。我们现在了解事情都是通过媒体，媒体的准确性完全影响了我们，它是很害人的。
可能有些事情过了好多年又被纠正，就像文革一样，这个历史在不断地改变。如果媒体出书做归纳整理，那些人可以被收录，这是很有问题的。因为媒体掌控了一切，它的标准是唯一的标准。而媒体背后又有很多不同的利益集团控制着媒体的走向，什么是真实的?什么是虚假的?什么是真理?就很难说了。而且现在有那么多杂志、电视、网络、手机，我们的生活都被媒体包围了，正在失去很多东西，但是我们可能还没有意识到。比如当你以为头版头条是一个事实，是一个真理时，有可能完全是误读，而且每个国家的媒体宣传都是为了自己的利益、国家的利益，这是很恐怖的事情。
记：前段时间网络上有李辉揭示文怀沙的丑闻，最近又有黄苗子当年告迷聂绀卢的骇人消息，的确让我们对媒体充满了恐惧和疑惑。这是一个很可怕的事，相信以后这样的事会更多。媒体广告也是如此，谎言重复一千遍就变成真理了。现在很多媒体为了商业利益，没有真正起到引导作用，把真正精神性的东西传给读者、观众的很少。其实您的作品就是体现一个艺术家对社会、现实生活的焦虑和关注。
杨：我觉得艺术家做作品要有感而发。这次危机是百年不遇的全球性经济危机，我对此比较有兴趣，经常思考一些问题，我觉得首先当代艺术有一种批判性，直接介入社会。为什么传统绘画不属于当代艺术?因为它体现一种逃避的心态，隐居山林、自我逃避，没有关注当下的生活。
二
记：您的作品和观念总在不同媒介之间转换，思考和状态转换得很快，这也是您的艺术独特之所在。
杨：媒介是为观念服务的，用什么材料表现，肯定是跟个人观念有关。比如在做《圣经》时，它的创作材料我都考虑过了，用流行文化的纸屑做一个雕塑的《圣经》，是因为雕塑可以给人直观的视觉，让人感到现在的社会被流行文化充斥了，人们没有了信仰。当代艺术家不一定会无限的重复，主要的还是从观念出发，寻找不同的媒介把观念表达得更全面。
【编辑：于欧】
什么媒介都不重要，重要的是要用得好，什么媒介最适合表达自己的观念就用什么。所以最近几年，我从用各种媒介进行艺术实验，如水、纸屑、荧光材料、感应器、电动机等等，形式上有浴室绘画到活动绘画，有双重绘画，抽象的与具象的、平面的与立体的，也有装置、跨媒介互动，我就感觉思路好像被打开了，想做什么就做什么。
记：从浴室系列、水珠系列，再到后来的装置作品，您用不同的形式去尝试和实验自己的观念，我觉得这是一个成功的艺术家应该具备的素质。而不是像国内其他的所谓成名艺术家只是在用一种形式和媒介创作。
杨：其实我这样做有很多的风险，不断的改变风格会影响艺术品的市场。但我不愿意重复，我想不断创新，否则就没有创作的兴趣了。比如活动绘画跟平面绘画就不一样，作为双重绘画，从观念到形式到媒介，它们之间的关系为观念的表达提供了另外一种可能性。
现在我又在做一些纸屑的绘画，这个材料挺有意思。铜、玻璃钢、丙烯、油画等都是传统媒介，本身没有什么文化内容，而用杂志纸屑作为媒介来做作品，它本身就有一种文化内容，而不仅仅是一个媒介。
记：纸是中国的四大发明之一，而且是现在被人们无限反复使用的一个媒介，有没有考虑过和别人出现重复的现象?比如徐冰、谷文达都用纸做过许多作品。
杨：用纸作为媒介很多人使用过，但我现在用纸屑作为媒介，我把它彻底粉碎了，重新有了意义的转换。消解了纸张的意义，我以为是不同的。但是有冒险性，不管观众能否接受，只想先把它做出来再说。
现在我的作品都是跨媒介的，而不是局限于平面或立体的范围内。实际上，传统的语言被用了很多年，已经很难再有新的元素出现了。这是一种局限性。但像装置、跨媒介等语言出现的时间很短，还有很多突破的可能性。这不是说因为它有很多的可能性才去做这些作品，我觉得还是根据自己的观念决定。有些人就是画画也能走出一条路，每个人情况不一样。我是什么都在做，现在是装置，也许过两年我会去画画。艺术家就是比较自由的，自己想做什么就做什么。
记：您是尝试在不同的媒介之间形成一个互动的关系，以表达您的观念?
杨：对，这种互动可能有关系，有时候也可能没有关系。比如我现在的作品从表面上看可能跟我以前的画没有关系，但是过十年再来看，肯定都有相通的东西。现在回头去看我留学时期的作品是用的镜子反射，而我前几年的“水珠系列”也是通过镜子的折射，实际上他们之间就有潜在的关联。当代艺术是有跳跃性的，我不去考虑它跟以前有什么联系，我觉得有好的想法就去做，自己认为好的想法一定是有一个判断系统的。它是不会脱离你自己的。
三
记：您是川美77届油画班的，那一届出现了很多知名的艺术家，像罗中立、何多苓、张晓刚、周春芽等都是很有影响的艺术家都是您的同学，虽然当时您的年纪最小，但是现在凸显出来的是您。我个人以为，在创新方面、形式方面，您走在了其他人前面。在其他艺术形式上都有涉猎。他们似乎只在绘画方面下的功夫多一点。
杨：每个人情况都不一样。不过我也算是个“老人”了(呵呵)，经历过“伤痕美术”、“乡土艺术”，曾跟罗中立他们合作《孤儿》参加全国美展，而且我的毕业创作是画了几个农村的小孩，也是很乡土的。只是在“85新潮”时，我就去美国了，没有直接介入“85”、“89”。但我在美国经常和张晓刚、毛旭辉他们通信长达10年，也是“新具象艺术群体”在美国的联络人，协助策划过他们在美国的一些展览。虽然当时我不在国内，但是在纽约目睹了后现代艺术发展的一段过程，从新表现主义到抽象，各种各样的艺术形式都有，这些经历为我打下了一些基础，整个思路放开了。2002年回国以后，重新进入中国的当代艺术，一直到现在，年龄虽然不小了，但也只能算一个新的艺术家了(呵呵)。
记：可能正是这个原因形成了您现在的面貌和不停跳跃的思维，让人感觉你在思维上比别人更开阔。
杨：思维不能老化，不能受市场的影响，实际上现在国外的那些大师，他们做的东西都是非常多元的。从达明•赫斯特到杰夫·昆斯、草间弥生，他们都在不断地改变，不断地思考，从来没有重复的，一旦重复了，他们就会被淘汰了，也不会有这么大的影响。因为重复是没有生命力的。
记：国内现在很多艺术家都还在重复用着自己的符号，这就是很可笑的现象了。您在美国呆了多久?
杨：我在佛罗里达读书呆了3年，后来14年都呆在纽约。
记：其实我对您个人的创作历程很感兴趣，因为您很具有代表性。您在不同媒介之间的转换，其实正是您在不停地打破真实与非真实、模糊与非模糊之间的界限。
杨：人总是要突破自己，超越自己的，我的《纸喷泉》作品就是把我在2005年举办的一个画展的画册也全部粉碎。我觉得这只是一个观念，就是对过去不要留恋太多，要往前看。
记：这也是在抛弃过去的同时，消解自己的一个过程。您在国外呆了很多年，目睹了后现代艺术的发展，您怎么看待中国当代艺术的发展?
杨：我觉得中国现在挺好的，有各种各样的艺术家做不同的作品，有很多好的艺术家，前景很乐观。因为金融危机的波及，艺术市场受到影响，但是这个是暂时的。现在有很多年轻的艺术家也在成长，中国当代艺术以后肯定会越来越好，在国际上的地位和关注度会越来越高。
【编辑：于欧】
Misinterpretations and crisis
In Conversation with Yang Qian on talk of the Crisis in the Extraordinary Social Situations
一
Ji: Mr. Yang, you involved in many kinds of art forms,and did lots of experiment in art. What are the major artworks in the "extraordinary" new exhibition of the year 2009?
Yang: Mostly the work is my reflection and focus on recent various social crisis. It includs installation art, paintings and other artworks.
Ji: You say this is a integrated exhibition, what's the subject of the exhibition?
Yang: The theme is "extraordinary", the curator Huang Wu named it. It includes two meanings: one is beyond what is usual, ordinary; the other meaning is experiences from daily life. From this point of view, the artist borrows the artistic language from architecture,literature, performance stage, media and sports goods, puts them into his installation art that provides more meaningful contents." This is time of the global crisis, this exhibition reflects many crisis in our life. I created the work through a reflection of what crisis people are facing. These crisis such as media crisis,value crisis ,religion crisis, spirit crisis, economic crisis, environment crisis and the others.
Ji: the core of this exhibition is reflecting crisis problems,right?
Yang: You are correct. For example,Babel is about media crisis.Up until this point in the Bible, a united humanity, speaking a single language and migrating from the east, took part in the building after the Great Flood; The people decided build themselves a tower so immense that it would have "its top in the heaven God, seeing what the people were doing, confounded their languages and scattered the people throughout the earth. Then cultural diversity and many other problems among nations. Babel in Rabbinic means "chaos". This is a metaphor. I think the crazy media is also building a Babel, chaos ideas filled with people. There is sort of regulation, or for commercial intention, so the media often lie.
Legend 1001 #1 and #2 are about the value crisis. I made US dollar and Chinese Yuan Renminbi into 1001 nominal value. I use the wastepaper of the copy of money as medium. There are two meanings: one is expanding value and the devalued currency. The other is unreal value,the value is changing all the time, and it's horrible.
Bible is made of wastepaper from the popular magezines. It reflects popular culture instead of spiritual religion. Obama and the house for Buddha residing in together in the artwork, reflecting the American regard Obama as the only hope as their religious idol. In fact, he is only a president, How he has the extraordinary power to give a miracle to the nation? This work implicates the religion and confidence is impacted. The woman sculpture is made from resin and wastepaper,I hope it brings the feeling of rubbish to viewers when thinking of the modern body and soul.
Greenspan is also made from wastepaper. The wastepaper will reach to all direction on the wall, until it gradually disappear. The financial institutions are like the wastepaper's track, the power handle in the centre. If the centre is go wrong, the world will fall into the abyss. The other work is like a fountain, it spurts out pingpong balls. All kinds of words imprint on the pingpong balls. The work implicates our life surround by all kinds of media , but the media are polluted and abnormal. These works consist the crisis as the core of this exhibition.
Ji: Your artworks are sort of reflections of analysis of the crisis.
Yang: This work about the crisis is my new start. Now i become more and more sensitive about the underlying power of the media and it controls the modern life at some point, it breaks the boundaries of culture and regions.
【编辑：于欧】
Ji: Do you mean the media are not like the past have many limitions, now they are wide spread?
Yang: I think the media become sort of an only standard to judge the various events. They say what is good that is good;the top list of something,in addition advertisement, all these are kind of commercial speculation. Not only China and the art market, I think the whole social system is like this. For example, lately Korea launched a satellite, Europe and the United States said Korea failed to lauch their satellite, but Korea has a video tape to prove they did succeed. We can hardly know the truth, all the information we can receive is all from the media. We get to know the events all through the media, it's very harmful to us if we get the information is not true.
Some event is be made it right through many years. Such as the culture revolution, and the story telling of this history are changing constantly. Sometimes the publications may be prohibited. It's very hard to know what is real r true,what is not real, artificial. At some point, the media have thier own standard, and there is power behind, controling what can be publish. So many magazines, TV programs, internet and mobile phones immersing in our life. We are losing sorts of things,but we may not aware of that. For example, you regard a newspaper headline is a real event, but you may absolutely wrong. For every nation, who greatly benefit politically titled to determine what stories can be publish.
Ji: Lately there are two much rumors on the internet. Such as about Wen Huaisha, Huang Miaozi and Nie Ganlu. Too much rumors are released around us. Many media profit for commercial benefit, they do not play a role of spread the real spiritual treasure to people. Your artwork is a reflection of social problem as an artist.
Yang: I think as an artist should make works from his deep thought. The economic recession triggers many problems. I an interest in these problems. I think artists should have critical thinking, involving in the society. Why traditional painting is far from contemporary art, because it lacks of reflection of the recent society.
二
Ji: Your art is special, transforms from different medium and different concept. The transitions were changed rapidly.
Yang: The media are working for the concept, what material should used that relates to personal concept. For example when i make the work Bible, I consider which material was better. I decided to use wastepaper to make a sculpture, all because of sculpture can give viewer a better intuitionistic vision,showing the modern society impacts by popular culture, people are losing their religion. The contemporary artists may not repeatedly doing the same work as the same as the past. All the work starts from its concept, seeking different mediums to express the idea better.
What kinds of medium to use is not important,but how to use it well.It depends on the concept. Late years, I used different mediums to do the experiments in art, such as water, wastepaper,fluorescence material, sensors, electromotor and some others. The forms are various, different paintings, abstract and realistic, graphic and three-dimensional, installation art, new media and so on.I feel my mind becomes broader,i can handle it easily.
Ji: From shower room series to water drops series,and the latest installation art, you constantly to make new works different from the past. This spirit is crucial for the best artist. Unlike many artists always create work only in one style.
Yang: Exactly I changed my style all the time that will increase more risks when facing the art market.But, I don't want to repeat, i want to innovate constantly, or i will lose the interest in creating artworks. For example, movable paniting is different from graphic painting,as two– layer –painting. New concept and form provides more possibilities.
I do paintings with some wastepaper recently, the material is interesting. Cuprum, Glass fiber reinforced plastic, acrylic and oil painting are all the traditional mediums, they possess of less cultural message.The wastepaper I used in my artwork, it's not only a medium,but itself is a cultural matter.
Ji: Paper is one of the four great inventions of China. Many artists used it as mediums in artworks, such as Xu Bing and Gu Wenda. Do you think your work has a similarity like theirs?
【编辑：于欧】
Yang: Many artists use the paper as a medium, but i use wastepaper as medium. The paper was shattered into pieces as wastepaper, and it has new meaning, not as the same as simple paper. But it has risk, viewer may not like it, but i still want to make it done first then consider other problems.
Recently, my work consist many different mediums, not only graphic or three-dimensional. In fact, the traditional languages were used for many years, there left less creative possibilities. Unlike the traditional languages, installation art and new media art, there are many possibilities to explore. I do the work depend on my art concept. Some artists' insistently style are painting and do it well, but every artists has their own way. I try various mediums, recently i focus on installation art, maybe i will do painting two years later. Artists' life are freely, they can do whatever they want to.
Ji: You created an interactive relationship among the different mediums, right?
Yang: Correct. Sometimes there is an interactive connection, sometimes there isn't. My recent work, it seems has nothing related to my past paintings; But after ten years, maybe can find something related to. When I look back, seeing work created in America which used mirrors reflecting the creatures, and my past years' water drops series was also creatures which reflected through mirrors. In fact, there is potential connection.between them. The contemporary art is independent, I never consider whether it needs a connection with the past works.If i have good idea, I will do it. There is a standard to measure whether the concept is good, it belongs to yourself.
三
Ji: You studied at Sichuan Academy of Fine Arts from1977, many famous artists are your classmates, such as Luo Zhongli, He Duoling, Zhang Xiaogang and Zhou Chunya. You are the youngest among them. They focus on painting, you involved in many art mediums, doing kinds of art forms.
Yang: Every artist has his own way. I am a senior artist at some point, I came across the art which are reflections on the Cultural Revolution, later the “rural realistic art”. I have been cooperated with Luo Zhongli and other artists created Orphansm taking part in national exhibition. My my graduate work was about several rural children interpreted rural character. I have been to America since '85 New Wave, so i was not directly took part in '85, '89. While i was in American, I often contacted with friends such as Zhang Xiaogang, Mao Xuhui and others, the connection among us almost last for ten year. I played a role of a curator helping them to have exhibitions in America. Although I was not in China that time, I have seen the evolution of Post-Modern Art in New York. The journey from new expressionism to abstract expressionism, under all kinds of art forms, it broadens my mind and establish a good base for me. Since the year 2002, I have been back home, and be a part of Chinese contemporary artists. Until now, although i am not young, but i am a new artist.
Ji: Your special experience, providing you broader mind and perspective than others.
Yang: You need to keep your mind alive. Don't let it affect by the market. In fact, many foreign masters, their works are very diverse. Such as Damien Hirst, Jeff Koons and Takashi Murakami, they never stop thinking, and constantly innovate. they are never repeatedly. once, they do, they will fall out of favour, and decrease their influence.Because doing the work repeatedly provides no vitality.
Ji: Many artists repeatedly use their symbol in their work. How long have you been in America?
Yang: I have studied in Florida for three years, and later I have stayed in New York for fourteen years.
Ji: Your personal creative journey is attractive. You constantly breakthrough yourself.
Yang: Human always need breakthrough themselves. My work paper fountain consist of wastepaper of shattering the catalogs which are for one exhibition in the year 2005. This was for the concept of the artwork. I don't like looking back often, i like focus on the future.
Ji: You destroy your past work for a new work, gaining self development. You have been living abroad for many years, you have seen the evolution of Post-Modern Art, How do you think the development of Chinese contemporary art?
Yang: I think it's the good time for Chinese art. There are various artists are doing different artworks.There are so many good and young artists, many young artists are growing, the future is bright. Although the global economic recession impact on the art market, I think it will not last too long. The Chinese contemporary art will become better and better, it will attract more international attention.
【编辑：于欧】
